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 EMS Is this how they do things?

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madcow

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PostSubject: EMS Is this how they do things?   Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:52 pm

For the first time in my life, I called the squad to come and transport my husband. He was in a weaken state, and I was afaird if I tried to get him into my car, we would both fall on the ice, and thought he needed to be sent by squad because he was so ill and weak. Mind you, I am not someone who calls the squad for a hang nail, this was the first time in 50 years. To make it easier, my husband slowly made his way to the livingroom, thinking it would make it easier for them to come to get him out the front door. When they came in they asked my husband, can you walk to the squad? Of course trying to be the stand up guy, and not wanting to make waves he said he would try. I tried to intervene and said no, he is too weak. Again they asked him about walking to the squad. He asked me to help him with his boots and coat and out the door he went walking. And going down the steps. Is this the way the squad operates? I could understand if I were calling the squad every other week or so, but this was the first time. I have been upset over this since it happen, but needed time to cool off. Time to be able to voice my concern in a calm mature way. But here was my husband, who was so ill from cancer surgery, who was admitted to the hospital for treatment, but only asked if he could walk to the squad. Is this how transfers are done? I have not seen the bill as of yet, but is the cost the same if they dragged him, or carried him on a gurney? My husband is nearly 70 years old and is very thin from his illness. I might as well had called a taxi, or done it myself.
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emergency



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:29 pm

Totally unacceptable MC, you need to file a major complaint, refuse to pay.

I know you have the medical knowlegde MC.....and made the decision to call for help. Seems to me you might as well done you own transport.

If there was a problem with lifting, the crew can always call for help.........geez you got 2 directors sitting in that office both collecting a $70,000 plus salary a year, both drive 4 WD vehicles your dollars are paying for, they can come help. well maybe if they can pull themselves away from the computer screen.....

Of course maybe it just wasn't the run of their dreams.........maybe only trauma alerts get the luxury of the cot.........

In reality those EMT's cannot diagnois your husband, what if it was cardiac related and he fell or collapsed by being made walk.........well guess they'd get their trauma alert then......

I can recall one time long ago I was on squad, and yes I made the patient walk into the ambulance.......why??? he had already walked from Chatum apts, to down below Waynes on chestnut to call the squad for a "sore throat". I figured he walked that far, he could walk a few more steps.....he was far from weak.
He was one of the local riff raff that liked the lights anf sirens........
Than another time I actually argued with a family memeber wanting to let their elderly relative walk into the bathroom. I kept saying I have to get them to the hospital, they are having a heart attack.........they can have an accident on the cot, I'll wash it later. well I lost the arguement, the son made the dad walk to the bathroom......so one grount push he was dead ont he floor.........

Beware if there was a paramedic on that run for your husband, I'll bet they charge you the higher rate.alled an ALS run.
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:45 pm

Thanks for the reply, one that I did not think I would get. I figured I would be attacked. I wondered why they took the chance of him falling? I keep thinking afterwards for safety they would have not had him walk. He's a tall man but not very big. I coud see if it where me. I should have just sent them on there way and did it myself, but I was to upset about my husband being so ill and weak, I didn't have any fight in me. But now that we are both out of the hospital and feeling better, I needed to voice! Thanks for listening.
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:15 am

Based on what friends on the EMS have told me, you shouldn't get a bill. EMS services are free for Coshocton County residents.
As to why they asked him if he could walk- with all the ice on the ground it was safer to walk him out with support from the techs than it would be to try to move the cot over the ice. When I was on a squad, we had a similar situation, but the patient couldn't walk to the squad. The cot caught on a rut in the ice and spilled the patient out on the ground, causing further injury.
Be glad they had extra concern for your husband's safety.
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:09 am

So what you are telling me is that, they would walk a dead man out to the squad if there was ice on the ground? And if that person did fall out of the cot, why was they not strapped in. Everytime I ever saw the squad do a transfer they strapped the person onto the cop just so this would not happen. Nice try but no dice, I know there are plenty of great people who work on the squad. I have meet many over the years, but sorry I felt short changed with my husband's transfer. Am I right for feeling this way, maybe no, maybe yes. But it's how I feel. I am very protective over my husband, maybe overly, but I don't think he would want me any other way!
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papa

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:19 am

how is your hubby doing?
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:13 am

Thanks for asking, he's doing much better now. And starting to eat real food again. He looks pretty thin right now, but he's getting some color back. We have even been out to sing karaoke for the first time in months.
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papa

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:07 pm

kool, glad to hear it !!
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:34 am

madcow wrote:
So what you are telling me is that, they would walk a dead man out to the squad if there was ice on the ground? And if that person did fall out of the cot, why was they not strapped in. Everytime I ever saw the squad do a transfer they strapped the person onto the cop just so this would not happen. Nice try but no dice, I know there are plenty of great people who work on the squad. I have meet many over the years, but sorry I felt short changed with my husband's transfer. Am I right for feeling this way, maybe no, maybe yes. But it's how I feel. I am very protective over my husband, maybe overly, but I don't think he would want me any other way!

No, they wouldn't walk a dead man out- he can't walk because he is dead. They just leave him there and call the coroner.
Even though someone is strapped onto the cot doesn't guarantee they won't be injured if the cot tips over and falls. In fact, injuries are far more likely in that situation when they are strapped in, since they cannot move freely enough to minimize the injuries from the impact. For that reason, injuries are far more likely to be to the head and body, instead of the arms and legs. If your hubby had been unable to walk, they would have used the cot and taken the chances. Since he was able to walk, it was safer to get him out that way.
I do hope he is getting better.
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CoshoctonTaxpayer

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:11 am

this ohio madman must be a fucking blooming idiot. It was a terrible decision to have him walk. In his condition the chance of risking a heart attack by making him walk to the squad was very real. And it the cot tipped over the injuries would be to the arms mainly,because the person would put their arm out to catch themselves but with the extra weight from the cot,they would more than likely suffer a broken arm or shoulder injury.
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:39 pm

CoshoctonTaxpayer wrote:
this ohio madman must be a fucking blooming idiot. It was a terrible decision to have him walk. In his condition the chance of risking a heart attack by making him walk to the squad was very real. And it the cot tipped over the injuries would be to the arms mainly,because the person would put their arm out to catch themselves but with the extra weight from the cot,they would more than likely suffer a broken arm or shoulder injury.

In the first place, where in this thread was it stated that he was having a heart attack? Since it wasn't the chances of him having a heart attack while walking out to the squad were no greater than any other time.
In the second place, in most cases the arms are strapped in, so, no the injuries wouldn't be to the arms if the cot tipped over. Having seen the results of moving a cot over ice, and it tipping over, the decision to have him walk out IF HE WAS ABLE TO WALK was the right one to make.

Since I have refrained from calling people idiots in my posts and avoided the f-bomb in my posts(some people do find the word offensive), I would say I am far from being an idiot. I have a large enough vocabulary to be able to express myself without resorting to those tactics.
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CoshoctonTaxpayer

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:27 am

The last i checked it was nipple, navel, knees...The arms are not strapped down, especially in a non trauma patient. Being out in the cold and being elderly would make him more at risk for a MI. Then factor in if he falls and strikes his head and becomes a trauma. I would say FEAR was a factor in having him walk. That way they wouldn't be sued if it did tip over and fracture an arm. I think i heard that may have happened here recently.
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Nazgul

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PostSubject: Madcow.......   Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:18 pm

I'm glad to hear that DH is felling well enough to get out for a bit..........I'm sure that's good medicine for him. Very Happy
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:57 pm

Nipple navel knees, with the arms under the straps until the cot is loaded into the squad. They don't want the patients's arms slipping off the cot if he/she becomes unconscious while they are getting him out the door. At any rate. the patient cannot do much to break the fall if the cot tips over. Walking out with support, if the patient is able to do so is the sfest way to cross ice, which from the date of MC's first post, would have been on the ground along with a few inches of snow. If the ice didn't cause the problem, the snow would have, since cot wheels aren't designed to move through snow. When I took EMT training they did stress that, in adverse conditions, it is better to walk the patient out if the patient is able to walk.
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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:16 am

I have NEVER seen a patients arms under the straps.You haven't either. Especially if the patient is a non trauma.Cot wheels move just fine through snow and and most other ground cover.
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:56 am

CoshoctonTaxpayer wrote:
I have NEVER seen a patients arms under the straps.You haven't either. Especially if the patient is a non trauma.Cot wheels move just fine through snow and and most other ground cover.
Are you speaking from experience or do you just watch ER? I'm speaking from several years expeience in EMS-not in this county, thank god, but I do know what I am talking about. So you don't agree. Fine. But you are apparently not arguing from experience.
Cot wheels do not move just fine through snow- If the snow is deep enough. they jam up with impacted snow and hang up. They aren't wide wnough to travel over snow-they sink down in. Add in the ice layer we had under the snowfall, and you have a very precarious situation. A person walkng across the ice supported by two people, one on each side, is less likely to fall since at least one of those helping him would have enough traction to keep him from falling, or to keep him from landing hard. In the worst case, if all three slip, the patient will likely land on one or the other EMT instead of the ice and avoid serious additional injury. The EMT he lands on may not be so lucky, but that is the chance they take.
On the squads I ran on, the procedure is the arms go under the strap until the cot is inside the squad, then they are released. So, yes I have seen them strapped in many times.
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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:20 am

the stryker cots used in this county move just fine in the snow. What good is an emt if they are injured moving a patient??? They are useless and not only that they just cost the county workers comp.
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:23 am

Unless Stryker has changed their design radically, I can't agree. I've used them before and wasn't impressed with their snow performance. They do all right in an inch or two, but bog down when it is deep.
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:39 pm

I never ran with the squad, so I don't know how cots travel though the snow. I would think that after so many runs, that they would learn how to guide a cot though the snow. Maybe they should have told me when I called 911, that because of the snow, we will walk your husband to the squad, unless he is dead or in a coma. All I know is I was panic, to see him so weak and ill, and I heartfully believe I needed to call 911 for him to be transfered. Like I said this was the first time I had ever called the squad to my home, and I guess I wanted my husband to be give the standard of care that was due him. Prehaps I was asking too much, I just thought that when you called the squad they transfered you via cot. I guess I need to wake up to the real world.


The price the poor guy was to pay for being Madcow's husband. LOL
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:57 am

With the conditions, they likely would have had to carry the cot instead of rolling it. If either EMT slipped while carrying it, it would have been difficult for that person to recover traction and balance and it would have been likely that the cot, your husband, and one or both EMTs would have ended up on the ground. They were seriously thinking of your husband's welfare and safety when they asked him if he was able to walk out to the squad. If he had said no, they would have taken the risks and carried him out. Since he indicated that he was able to walk, they took him out that way, with them supporting him.
Even though it didn't seem like it to you, your husband was getting the best care they could provide.
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 am

That is so true, I didn't like it, maybe if I called the squad every other day or so to my house, I would have know. Maybe you are right, but the least they could have done was told me when I try to tell them he was too weak, they could have seen I was concerned about it and said, for your husband's safety it's better that we help him walk. That would have easied my concern, and not left me with such a bad taste in my mouth. Would you not agree, that they should have taken the time or effort to tell me this? When I was intervening for him? Would you have done that, or just dragged him out as I stood their, knowing I was worried about this transfer?
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:23 am

Why are you trying so hard? When there are so many other threads to post on.
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:48 am

I just heard on Jay Leno, that you are going to have to pay 55 bucks, to call 911. LOL. Call a cab, it will be cheaper and they walk with you to the Cab and even open the door for you! And the best part, they even let you smoke? At least they did a few years back, when I had to call a cab to go to work in.
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Ohio madman



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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:54 pm

I think the last anti-smoking issue I voted against ended smoking in taxi cabs also.
Obama signed a law that will add $.61 tax per pack so they can pay for children's health insurance-but keep limiting where you can smoke. There is someplace up in New England that has an ordinance that you can't smoke in your car if children are in the car with you, and somplace is considering one that would forbid smoking in your home if you have children living with you. Once they stamp out all the smokers, who is going to pay for all that health insurnace?
piss
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madcow

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PostSubject: Re: EMS Is this how they do things?   Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 pm

A friend of mine just called me and said a bag is going from 18 to 55. Glad I stopped smoking. I can't afford 18 for a bag let alone 55.
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